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	<title>Comments on: Is &#8220;Third Wave&#8221; just shorthand for the &#8220;tyranny of the barista&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/</link>
	<description>Rants and Raves on Espresso</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/comment-page-1/#comment-4301</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1080#comment-4301</guid>
		<description>What a unique and interesting parallel between the "Third Wavers" (*cough* *cough*) and Clover's marketing.

The whole waver concept smacks of every political, cultural, or social label created by näive youth -- either in denial of the status quo's derivative nature (i.e., "look what I invented...what a good boy am I!") or blissfully ignorant of how it is built upon the work of generations prior as a natural progression. Or worse, it can be like the "Web 2.0" example -- where certain interests throw on a "new and improved" sticker as a way of distancing themselves from past mistakes.

Yes, "Third Wave" has since become a contemporary, and (ultimately) temporary, marketing replacement for "gourmet" -- a term which fell on hard times back in the 1980s when its overuse reached its peak with popcorn (Orville Redenbacker) and jelly beans (Jelly Belly) ... thereby relegating it ever since to downmarket product marketing on the store shelves at Wal-Mart.

As for the Clover, I never heard that many complaints about its brewing temperatures and extraction -- so these details are interesting to hear. Though of the few cups I've had from them, I never experienced anything I couldn't get out of an 1830s technology vac pot.

Cheers, Jaime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a unique and interesting parallel between the &#8220;Third Wavers&#8221; (*cough* *cough*) and Clover&#8217;s marketing.</p>
<p>The whole waver concept smacks of every political, cultural, or social label created by näive youth &#8212; either in denial of the status quo&#8217;s derivative nature (i.e., &#8220;look what I invented&#8230;what a good boy am I!&#8221;) or blissfully ignorant of how it is built upon the work of generations prior as a natural progression. Or worse, it can be like the &#8220;Web 2.0&#8243; example &#8212; where certain interests throw on a &#8220;new and improved&#8221; sticker as a way of distancing themselves from past mistakes.</p>
<p>Yes, &#8220;Third Wave&#8221; has since become a contemporary, and (ultimately) temporary, marketing replacement for &#8220;gourmet&#8221; &#8212; a term which fell on hard times back in the 1980s when its overuse reached its peak with popcorn (Orville Redenbacker) and jelly beans (Jelly Belly) &#8230; thereby relegating it ever since to downmarket product marketing on the store shelves at Wal-Mart.</p>
<p>As for the Clover, I never heard that many complaints about its brewing temperatures and extraction &#8212; so these details are interesting to hear. Though of the few cups I&#8217;ve had from them, I never experienced anything I couldn&#8217;t get out of an 1830s technology vac pot.</p>
<p>Cheers, Jaime.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/comment-page-1/#comment-4297</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 03:00:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1080#comment-4297</guid>
		<description>I believe strongly in the barista as a sales person and the final quality control but...

The whole concept of wavers, if you really look back seemed like a magnificent coup de grace.  A way of saying, we have arrived and specifically, I the author of(or lecturer on) the concept have arrived.  I made it to the top by saying we have arrived.  In their own words, there can be no fourth wave so this is the supposed peak even if there are others doing much more progressive stuff. It was executed in much the same way Clover used the online echo chamber to build it's buzz.  Sure I got the free T and mug too and they are cool people but the machine never did a good job at brewing. Temperature drops, fines, and filtration were issues often overlooked leading to under extracted or paper thin high toned cups.  The marketing though, it was a fantastic plot and really played on the ego and elitism/exclusivity in the community.

I remember once getting a call from a prominent trainer who asked me for all my contacts locally as she was part of a new consulting business, saying 'you know, for third wave, for the team'.  I thought, what a scam.  I have worked hard for my friends and contacts to hand them over to someone spouting 3w nonsense who obviously has never read my site or understand my contempt for the online communities self congratulatory behavior.

I digress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe strongly in the barista as a sales person and the final quality control but&#8230;</p>
<p>The whole concept of wavers, if you really look back seemed like a magnificent coup de grace.  A way of saying, we have arrived and specifically, I the author of(or lecturer on) the concept have arrived.  I made it to the top by saying we have arrived.  In their own words, there can be no fourth wave so this is the supposed peak even if there are others doing much more progressive stuff. It was executed in much the same way Clover used the online echo chamber to build it&#8217;s buzz.  Sure I got the free T and mug too and they are cool people but the machine never did a good job at brewing. Temperature drops, fines, and filtration were issues often overlooked leading to under extracted or paper thin high toned cups.  The marketing though, it was a fantastic plot and really played on the ego and elitism/exclusivity in the community.</p>
<p>I remember once getting a call from a prominent trainer who asked me for all my contacts locally as she was part of a new consulting business, saying &#8216;you know, for third wave, for the team&#8217;.  I thought, what a scam.  I have worked hard for my friends and contacts to hand them over to someone spouting 3w nonsense who obviously has never read my site or understand my contempt for the online communities self congratulatory behavior.</p>
<p>I digress.</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/comment-page-1/#comment-4278</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 16:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1080#comment-4278</guid>
		<description>Given their position in the coffee delivery chain, I could not imagine a single barista being able to claim much credit without the contributions that came before their hand. And yet I'll take a wild (and risky) guess that whatever little media coverage there is in the UK, as in the US, it mostly obsesses over the barista.

And oddly enough, it is the barista that is perhaps the most optional part of the delivery chain -- even when we're talking about &lt;em&gt;decent&lt;/em&gt; coffee. Between home espresso enthusiasts who pull their own shots or the myriad of ways that great coffee can be made without use of an espresso machine at all, the barista is perhaps the one part of the equation that's dispensable.

Now I certainly don't mean the push-button superautomatic machines that allow the likes of Starbucks to instantly turn grocery baggers into full-fledged "baristas" overnight. But does a vacuum brewer, or Clover brewer, really need the services of a dedicated barista? Maybe you could call their operators that, but it certainly won't automatically enroll them in any publicized competitions nor confer distinguished membership in a &lt;a href="http://www.baristaguildofamerica.org/" rel="nofollow"&gt;barista guild&lt;/a&gt;.

Then there are the many talented people who cover the role of barista quite well, thank you very much, but only as one role among many others on the job. It's a standard model among many Italian café owners, but it's also true of a number of owners (and bartenders and the occasional, but rarely decent, restaurant staffer) in the U.S.

Bottom line is that baristas matter a lot to the quality coffee delivery chain, but not nearly as much as coffee industry promotions, the mainstream media, and some of the baristas themselves are making it out to be. At least to the almost exclusionary level of the current climate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given their position in the coffee delivery chain, I could not imagine a single barista being able to claim much credit without the contributions that came before their hand. And yet I&#8217;ll take a wild (and risky) guess that whatever little media coverage there is in the UK, as in the US, it mostly obsesses over the barista.</p>
<p>And oddly enough, it is the barista that is perhaps the most optional part of the delivery chain &#8212; even when we&#8217;re talking about <em>decent</em> coffee. Between home espresso enthusiasts who pull their own shots or the myriad of ways that great coffee can be made without use of an espresso machine at all, the barista is perhaps the one part of the equation that&#8217;s dispensable.</p>
<p>Now I certainly don&#8217;t mean the push-button superautomatic machines that allow the likes of Starbucks to instantly turn grocery baggers into full-fledged &#8220;baristas&#8221; overnight. But does a vacuum brewer, or Clover brewer, really need the services of a dedicated barista? Maybe you could call their operators that, but it certainly won&#8217;t automatically enroll them in any publicized competitions nor confer distinguished membership in a <a href="http://www.baristaguildofamerica.org/" rel="nofollow">barista guild</a>.</p>
<p>Then there are the many talented people who cover the role of barista quite well, thank you very much, but only as one role among many others on the job. It&#8217;s a standard model among many Italian café owners, but it&#8217;s also true of a number of owners (and bartenders and the occasional, but rarely decent, restaurant staffer) in the U.S.</p>
<p>Bottom line is that baristas matter a lot to the quality coffee delivery chain, but not nearly as much as coffee industry promotions, the mainstream media, and some of the baristas themselves are making it out to be. At least to the almost exclusionary level of the current climate.</p>
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		<title>By: chris weaver</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/comment-page-1/#comment-4275</link>
		<dc:creator>chris weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 10:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1080#comment-4275</guid>
		<description>But I don't know of a single barista who is unprepared to give credit where credit is due to roasters. In the UK there is not enough media coverage for any aspect of the coffee community, let alone roasters. 

I am actually yet to interview a barista on my podcast, yet I've already dedicated 30 mins to interviewing Steve from Hasbean, have another in the pipeline plus coffee reviews, the only person I haven't interviewed is a barista!

And regarding barista exchange, whilst is has become an all round social networking site, it was conceived as a method to exchange baristas amongst different shops, giving them more experience, better cv's and great networking oppurtunities, however, you couldn't do that with roasters, growers etc... hence 'barista exchange'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I don&#8217;t know of a single barista who is unprepared to give credit where credit is due to roasters. In the UK there is not enough media coverage for any aspect of the coffee community, let alone roasters. </p>
<p>I am actually yet to interview a barista on my podcast, yet I&#8217;ve already dedicated 30 mins to interviewing Steve from Hasbean, have another in the pipeline plus coffee reviews, the only person I haven&#8217;t interviewed is a barista!</p>
<p>And regarding barista exchange, whilst is has become an all round social networking site, it was conceived as a method to exchange baristas amongst different shops, giving them more experience, better cv&#8217;s and great networking oppurtunities, however, you couldn&#8217;t do that with roasters, growers etc&#8230; hence &#8216;barista exchange&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/comment-page-1/#comment-4274</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1080#comment-4274</guid>
		<description>The roasters play a big role. But outside of the &lt;a href="http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/nyc-roasters/" rel="nofollow"&gt;occasional media coverage&lt;/a&gt; about them, let's face it -- it's a barista-obsessed world out there these days.

How many of us know of, let alone how many media mentions does the winner receive of, the SCAA's annual &lt;a href="http://www.scaa.org/press_article.asp?article_id=137258085" rel="nofollow"&gt;Roasters Guild Roasters Choice Tasting Competition&lt;/a&gt; compared with the winner of the &lt;a href="http://www.scaa.org/about_usbc.asp" rel="nofollow"&gt;U.S. Barista Championship&lt;/a&gt;? (Forgetting for a moment that Caribou Coffee won it at the last SCAA conference.) It is no contest, really. And the winning roasters are rarely addressed by personal names.

As for social networks, that's another subject. But given &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law" rel="nofollow"&gt;Melcalfe's Law&lt;/a&gt; of networks, two independently smaller networks with common interests are each less than half the value of a single, combined network.

The Balkanized existence of multiple social networks for baristas is ultimately counterproductive -- creating more opportunities for "ghost towns" on specific topics or regional interests. They suffer from the same inefficiencies that arise when, for comparison, foundations for missing children operate and sustain themselves in the names of each individual child -- rather than as a combined entity with common goals for missing children in general. Honestly, the people (egos?) behind Barista Connection and Barista Exchange (and every other new wannabe out there) should put down their differences if they truly wanted to make something better in service to baristas everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The roasters play a big role. But outside of the <a href="http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/nyc-roasters/" rel="nofollow">occasional media coverage</a> about them, let&#8217;s face it &#8212; it&#8217;s a barista-obsessed world out there these days.</p>
<p>How many of us know of, let alone how many media mentions does the winner receive of, the SCAA&#8217;s annual <a href="http://www.scaa.org/press_article.asp?article_id=137258085" rel="nofollow">Roasters Guild Roasters Choice Tasting Competition</a> compared with the winner of the <a href="http://www.scaa.org/about_usbc.asp" rel="nofollow">U.S. Barista Championship</a>? (Forgetting for a moment that Caribou Coffee won it at the last SCAA conference.) It is no contest, really. And the winning roasters are rarely addressed by personal names.</p>
<p>As for social networks, that&#8217;s another subject. But given <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe's_law" rel="nofollow">Melcalfe&#8217;s Law</a> of networks, two independently smaller networks with common interests are each less than half the value of a single, combined network.</p>
<p>The Balkanized existence of multiple social networks for baristas is ultimately counterproductive &#8212; creating more opportunities for &#8220;ghost towns&#8221; on specific topics or regional interests. They suffer from the same inefficiencies that arise when, for comparison, foundations for missing children operate and sustain themselves in the names of each individual child &#8212; rather than as a combined entity with common goals for missing children in general. Honestly, the people (egos?) behind Barista Connection and Barista Exchange (and every other new wannabe out there) should put down their differences if they truly wanted to make something better in service to baristas everywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: chris weaver</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/comment-page-1/#comment-4271</link>
		<dc:creator>chris weaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1080#comment-4271</guid>
		<description>its an interesting point you try to make certainly. However, I'm not sure what you are implying? Within the industry, it seems to me the roasters pay a bigger part regarding industry bias, with even the most prolific baristas respecting and reccomending them.

Regarding the consumer level, of course the barista will play a big part representing the industry. Most consumers aren't interested with social networking for coffee, most couldn't care less about the intricacies, so for the most their link is with the barista in their local shop.

Also, how is Barista Exchange, and Common Grind reduntant in anyway, both cater happily to any aspect of the industry from baristas to growers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>its an interesting point you try to make certainly. However, I&#8217;m not sure what you are implying? Within the industry, it seems to me the roasters pay a bigger part regarding industry bias, with even the most prolific baristas respecting and reccomending them.</p>
<p>Regarding the consumer level, of course the barista will play a big part representing the industry. Most consumers aren&#8217;t interested with social networking for coffee, most couldn&#8217;t care less about the intricacies, so for the most their link is with the barista in their local shop.</p>
<p>Also, how is Barista Exchange, and Common Grind reduntant in anyway, both cater happily to any aspect of the industry from baristas to growers?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/tyranny-of-the-barista/comment-page-1/#comment-4270</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1080#comment-4270</guid>
		<description>not to mention, most baristas just don't know what they are talking about.  what they lack in knowledge they make up for in hubriis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not to mention, most baristas just don&#8217;t know what they are talking about.  what they lack in knowledge they make up for in hubriis.</p>
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