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	<title>Comments on: Think you&#8217;re saving a small fortune making coffee at home? Do the math.</title>
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	<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/</link>
	<description>Rants and Raves on Espresso</description>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-7702</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 16:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-7702</guid>
		<description>Most people have little clue that when you&#039;re buying coffee at a retail coffee shop, you&#039;re mostly buying &lt;a href=&quot;http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2010/05/coffee-prices-social-politics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;labor&lt;/a&gt; -- not coffee, and not even its mark-up.

Starbucks&#039; Howard Schultz can posture and blow smoke about how &lt;a href=&quot;http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12288992&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;evil speculators are spiking the price of coffee&lt;/a&gt;, but that&#039;s just theater. Starbucks&#039; biggest expense in the coffee delivery chain is labor costs.

And people overwhelmingly love the convenience of paying others to do their labor for them. It&#039;s ignorant to pretend this economic force doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people have little clue that when you&#8217;re buying coffee at a retail coffee shop, you&#8217;re mostly buying <a href="http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2010/05/coffee-prices-social-politics/" rel="nofollow">labor</a> &#8212; not coffee, and not even its mark-up.</p>
<p>Starbucks&#8217; Howard Schultz can posture and blow smoke about how <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=12288992" rel="nofollow">evil speculators are spiking the price of coffee</a>, but that&#8217;s just theater. Starbucks&#8217; biggest expense in the coffee delivery chain is labor costs.</p>
<p>And people overwhelmingly love the convenience of paying others to do their labor for them. It&#8217;s ignorant to pretend this economic force doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-7689</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 10:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-7689</guid>
		<description>Perhaps making pour over coffee at home might make sense economically, but for espresso, which tends to be more labor intensive and have so many different variables affecting the outcome of the final product, you might as well just go to a good cafe.  I was looking at getting a MyPressi for the one espresso a day that I drink, but it just doesn&#039;t make sense.  In SF, it costs $2-$2.50 for a standard blend and ~$3 for a single origin, and making it at home I might spend a little less than half that on materials like coffee and nitrous oxide cartridges, but I don&#039;t think I would come close to replicating the final product of my local barista at places like Four Barrel, Sightglass, and Blue Bottle (not to mention the time it would take to produce the shot).  Plus I don&#039;t have to drink the same beans every day -- I can change it up from one day to the next (something I can&#039;t do on a cost efficient basis at home), and I get to hang out in a cool cafe space for a few minutes as a daily diversion.  Note that I am in no way making a comparison to Starbucks, which has bad coffee and dull, homogenous cafe spaces.  A good espresso in a nice cafe really is one of life&#039;s simple pleasures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps making pour over coffee at home might make sense economically, but for espresso, which tends to be more labor intensive and have so many different variables affecting the outcome of the final product, you might as well just go to a good cafe.  I was looking at getting a MyPressi for the one espresso a day that I drink, but it just doesn&#8217;t make sense.  In SF, it costs $2-$2.50 for a standard blend and ~$3 for a single origin, and making it at home I might spend a little less than half that on materials like coffee and nitrous oxide cartridges, but I don&#8217;t think I would come close to replicating the final product of my local barista at places like Four Barrel, Sightglass, and Blue Bottle (not to mention the time it would take to produce the shot).  Plus I don&#8217;t have to drink the same beans every day &#8212; I can change it up from one day to the next (something I can&#8217;t do on a cost efficient basis at home), and I get to hang out in a cool cafe space for a few minutes as a daily diversion.  Note that I am in no way making a comparison to Starbucks, which has bad coffee and dull, homogenous cafe spaces.  A good espresso in a nice cafe really is one of life&#8217;s simple pleasures.</p>
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		<title>By: Enrico</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-7611</link>
		<dc:creator>Enrico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 19:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-7611</guid>
		<description>Hehe, the &quot;battlefield&quot; switches again from &quot;superautomatic espresso machine debate&quot; to &quot;save $$$ by making coffee at home&quot;. It&#039;s amazing what Google can do to you (i.e. your website) these days.

I agree on the point &quot;...I make espresso at home, it’s either because I want something specific that I can’t find in shops,... or that it’s convenient. It’s never to save any money.&quot;
Even my colleague only counts the Rp (not $) he spent on coffee (per serving) only when he&#039;s trying to count how much money does he actually spend when he&#039;s using a handheld, manual, espresso device, with N20 cartridges.

Aside from that... Only the machine&#039;s price does matter. The only thing matters after that is how much you can lobby your spouse on your coffee beans and milk shopping each month (as what happened to my other colleague)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hehe, the &#8220;battlefield&#8221; switches again from &#8220;superautomatic espresso machine debate&#8221; to &#8220;save $$$ by making coffee at home&#8221;. It&#8217;s amazing what Google can do to you (i.e. your website) these days.</p>
<p>I agree on the point &#8220;&#8230;I make espresso at home, it’s either because I want something specific that I can’t find in shops,&#8230; or that it’s convenient. It’s never to save any money.&#8221;<br />
Even my colleague only counts the Rp (not $) he spent on coffee (per serving) only when he&#8217;s trying to count how much money does he actually spend when he&#8217;s using a handheld, manual, espresso device, with N20 cartridges.</p>
<p>Aside from that&#8230; Only the machine&#8217;s price does matter. The only thing matters after that is how much you can lobby your spouse on your coffee beans and milk shopping each month (as what happened to my other colleague)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-7603</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-7603</guid>
		<description>Mr Williams:

1) I do not, nor have I ever, owned a coffee shop. But I do own a &lt;a href=&quot;http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/03/home-espresso-god-shot/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;relatively decent home espresso setup&lt;/a&gt; that cost me over $1,000 in grinder and machine.

2) I even &lt;a href=&quot;http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2009/01/home-coffee-roasting-economics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;roast my own coffee at home&lt;/a&gt;. This should apparently be saving me scads more money than those foolish saps who get raped buying only roasted beans in the stores at a 2x mark-up over buying unroasted green beans.

3) The point still stands: people do not operate by rational thought alone, particularly when it involves their own effort. This is why diets fail so miserably for so many billions of people.

With my home setup in use for the past 9 years, factoring in my time and the quality of supplies I get to make it worth my while, it&#039;s a toss up as to whether my home setup net saves me any real money or not. When I make espresso at home, it&#039;s either because I want something specific that I can&#039;t find in shops, that I want something better (though there&#039;s a lot of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coffeeratings.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;excellent retail options&lt;/a&gt; out there now), or that it&#039;s convenient. It&#039;s never to save any money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Williams:</p>
<p>1) I do not, nor have I ever, owned a coffee shop. But I do own a <a href="http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/03/home-espresso-god-shot/" rel="nofollow">relatively decent home espresso setup</a> that cost me over $1,000 in grinder and machine.</p>
<p>2) I even <a href="http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2009/01/home-coffee-roasting-economics/" rel="nofollow">roast my own coffee at home</a>. This should apparently be saving me scads more money than those foolish saps who get raped buying only roasted beans in the stores at a 2x mark-up over buying unroasted green beans.</p>
<p>3) The point still stands: people do not operate by rational thought alone, particularly when it involves their own effort. This is why diets fail so miserably for so many billions of people.</p>
<p>With my home setup in use for the past 9 years, factoring in my time and the quality of supplies I get to make it worth my while, it&#8217;s a toss up as to whether my home setup net saves me any real money or not. When I make espresso at home, it&#8217;s either because I want something specific that I can&#8217;t find in shops, that I want something better (though there&#8217;s a lot of <a href="http://www.coffeeratings.com/" rel="nofollow">excellent retail options</a> out there now), or that it&#8217;s convenient. It&#8217;s never to save any money.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-7600</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 16:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-7600</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t do it, just becuase a pot gives you 12 cups, its swill I tel you, aweful stuff.  Don&#039;t drink it, get those 12 cups at Starbucks, don&#039;t be fooled even though it will cost you $48, it is cheaper!!!!  Just becuase you think it cost you about $1.75 for the pot don&#039; be fooled, the electrical costs to make it were at least .25!!!!!  My fingers are still tired from hitting the on switch and what a chore to dump those grounds, damn I need to get into PT</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t do it, just becuase a pot gives you 12 cups, its swill I tel you, aweful stuff.  Don&#8217;t drink it, get those 12 cups at Starbucks, don&#8217;t be fooled even though it will cost you $48, it is cheaper!!!!  Just becuase you think it cost you about $1.75 for the pot don&#8217; be fooled, the electrical costs to make it were at least .25!!!!!  My fingers are still tired from hitting the on switch and what a chore to dump those grounds, damn I need to get into PT</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-7599</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 16:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-7599</guid>
		<description>Yes, and dont forget that cream.  Since you have to buy what the shop does, you need to buy a 55 gallon drum for $1200 month right?  No you can&#039;t just buy a normal size container.   Plus what about the stirrers, you have to buy a gross for $44, you can&#039;t just use a spoon, imagine the washing up costs!!!! And what about all the time to make the coffee!  Yes thats right, driving or going to a shop doesnt count, just that awful amount of work of going in your kitchen and pressing a button.... oh how terrible.   Yes those $5/cup at Starbucks is a bargain, they would easily cost you $144 per cup to make it yourself.  Give me a break, suckers that what they want everyone to be.

News Flash:  Save yourself $2k/year+ and make your own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and dont forget that cream.  Since you have to buy what the shop does, you need to buy a 55 gallon drum for $1200 month right?  No you can&#8217;t just buy a normal size container.   Plus what about the stirrers, you have to buy a gross for $44, you can&#8217;t just use a spoon, imagine the washing up costs!!!! And what about all the time to make the coffee!  Yes thats right, driving or going to a shop doesnt count, just that awful amount of work of going in your kitchen and pressing a button&#8230;. oh how terrible.   Yes those $5/cup at Starbucks is a bargain, they would easily cost you $144 per cup to make it yourself.  Give me a break, suckers that what they want everyone to be.</p>
<p>News Flash:  Save yourself $2k/year+ and make your own.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-7598</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Jan 2011 16:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-7598</guid>
		<description>This has to be the stupidest post ever and clearly written by a shop owner.  I got news for you, making your java at home saves the average daily drinker between $200-300/month for a couple and more if you go multiple times a day.   It is an easy way to save a huge amount of money, easier for std coffee than espresso, but for $3k a year go buy the most expensive machine out there and do the math.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has to be the stupidest post ever and clearly written by a shop owner.  I got news for you, making your java at home saves the average daily drinker between $200-300/month for a couple and more if you go multiple times a day.   It is an easy way to save a huge amount of money, easier for std coffee than espresso, but for $3k a year go buy the most expensive machine out there and do the math.</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-5603</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:30:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-5603</guid>
		<description>If you think we like Starbucks, Jessica, then you know nothing about this Web site. But yes -- fresh is better, home brew is fresher, and home brew &lt;em&gt;can be&lt;/em&gt; cheaper.

As an extreme example to illustrate this point (is this really so hard to understand??), imagine that I am a Wall Street trader dealing in the bulk sales of questionable mortgage derivatives who pulls in $10 million annually. That comes out to around $5,000 an hour for a 40-hour work week.

Are you telling me that the time and effort I spend making coffee at home will actually save me money compared to my spending that time on the phone fleecing some bank or wannabe homeowner?

You cannot be serious (or fiscally sane).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you think we like Starbucks, Jessica, then you know nothing about this Web site. But yes &#8212; fresh is better, home brew is fresher, and home brew <em>can be</em> cheaper.</p>
<p>As an extreme example to illustrate this point (is this really so hard to understand??), imagine that I am a Wall Street trader dealing in the bulk sales of questionable mortgage derivatives who pulls in $10 million annually. That comes out to around $5,000 an hour for a 40-hour work week.</p>
<p>Are you telling me that the time and effort I spend making coffee at home will actually save me money compared to my spending that time on the phone fleecing some bank or wannabe homeowner?</p>
<p>You cannot be serious (or fiscally sane).</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica Bosari</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-5600</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica Bosari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 11:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-5600</guid>
		<description>I love Starbucks too, man. But you&#039;re full of it. Fresh is better, home brew is cheaper. It won&#039;t buy you a jet, but no frugal person would ever buy a jet anyway. It could save you enough for a used car, which someone trying to save money is much more likely to buy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Starbucks too, man. But you&#8217;re full of it. Fresh is better, home brew is cheaper. It won&#8217;t buy you a jet, but no frugal person would ever buy a jet anyway. It could save you enough for a used car, which someone trying to save money is much more likely to buy!</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2008/08/home-coffee-myths/comment-page-1/#comment-4568</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=1174#comment-4568</guid>
		<description>You spend 5 minutes making coffee because apparently you&#039;re not one of the many people who order a &lt;em&gt;double-tall, four-pump vanilla caramel macchiato&lt;/em&gt; every day (i.e., people who think they like coffee, but drink anything but -- e.g., the $4 bucket of Starbucks’ pumpkin-pie-flavored Cool Whip). That and your standards may be a bit low.

It may take a pro a mere minute to make one of these milkshakes in a cafe, but much of the set-up, warm-up, take-down, clean-up, etc., that happens every day at a café must now happen for one customer: &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt;. Just &lt;a href=&quot;http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2009/01/zombierunner-palo-altozombierunner-palo-alto/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;last week&lt;/a&gt;, I had a barista spend 10 minutes tuning his machine and getting his shots right for my single espresso, as I was the first customer of his business day.

As for time, we&#039;re always forced to make choices to do x or y as an opportunity cost. Because what &lt;em&gt;wouldn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; be cheaper if we did it ourselves? Heck, we could be building our own cars from kits if that&#039;s the ultimate criteria here -- and most of us own cars. So simply saying &quot;it&#039;s cheaper to do it yourself&quot; offers zero additional useful information. That&#039;s a moot point without the additional context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You spend 5 minutes making coffee because apparently you&#8217;re not one of the many people who order a <em>double-tall, four-pump vanilla caramel macchiato</em> every day (i.e., people who think they like coffee, but drink anything but &#8212; e.g., the $4 bucket of Starbucks’ pumpkin-pie-flavored Cool Whip). That and your standards may be a bit low.</p>
<p>It may take a pro a mere minute to make one of these milkshakes in a cafe, but much of the set-up, warm-up, take-down, clean-up, etc., that happens every day at a café must now happen for one customer: <em>you</em>. Just <a href="http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2009/01/zombierunner-palo-altozombierunner-palo-alto/" rel="nofollow">last week</a>, I had a barista spend 10 minutes tuning his machine and getting his shots right for my single espresso, as I was the first customer of his business day.</p>
<p>As for time, we&#8217;re always forced to make choices to do x or y as an opportunity cost. Because what <em>wouldn&#8217;t</em> be cheaper if we did it ourselves? Heck, we could be building our own cars from kits if that&#8217;s the ultimate criteria here &#8212; and most of us own cars. So simply saying &#8220;it&#8217;s cheaper to do it yourself&#8221; offers zero additional useful information. That&#8217;s a moot point without the additional context.</p>
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