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	<title>Comments on: Third Wave Coffee, or First Wave Pompousness?</title>
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	<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/</link>
	<description>Rants and Raves on Espresso</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 07:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: alistair</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-4199</link>
		<dc:creator>alistair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-4199</guid>
		<description>Does Nick even know what the phrase 'Straw Man' even means???

What a goofy character. He needs to acquaint himself with wikipedia....quickly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does Nick even know what the phrase &#8216;Straw Man&#8217; even means???</p>
<p>What a goofy character. He needs to acquaint himself with wikipedia&#8230;.quickly.</p>
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		<title>By: Rumors of our death have been greatly exaggerated&#8230; &#171; CoffeeRatings.com - Our Nomadic Home</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-4063</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumors of our death have been greatly exaggerated&#8230; &#171; CoffeeRatings.com - Our Nomadic Home</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-4063</guid>
		<description>[...] Nick Cho list the site as one of the assets of Murky Coffee that had to be reclaimed for unpaid back taxes? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nick Cho list the site as one of the assets of Murky Coffee that had to be reclaimed for unpaid back taxes? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Espresso News and Reviews - TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; The Brooklyn Paper: Coffee guru espresses his disgust</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-734</link>
		<dc:creator>Espresso News and Reviews - TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; The Brooklyn Paper: Coffee guru espresses his disgust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 06:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-734</guid>
		<description>[...] This week&#8217;s The Brooklyn Paper published an article on espresso quality standards and their general absence in the fine borough, interviewing noneother than Third Wave pulpit banger, Nick Cho: The Brooklyn Paper: Coffee guru espresses his disgust. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This week&#8217;s The Brooklyn Paper published an article on espresso quality standards and their general absence in the fine borough, interviewing noneother than Third Wave pulpit banger, Nick Cho: The Brooklyn Paper: Coffee guru espresses his disgust. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; When the fourth wave couldn&#8217;t come fast enough&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; When the fourth wave couldn&#8217;t come fast enough&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 04:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-232</guid>
		<description>[...] A little background for the uninitiated. A couple months ago, I posted a rather dismissive article on the contept of third wave coffee that resulted in a bit of discussion among coffee aficionados and, in particular, advocates of the term. Also in particular, Nick Cho and I exchanged a few e-mails in debate over what &#8220;third wave&#8221; means &#8230; and I noted how it is being cited and misused in ways never intended by those who were among the original proponents of the concept. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A little background for the uninitiated. A couple months ago, I posted a rather dismissive article on the contept of third wave coffee that resulted in a bit of discussion among coffee aficionados and, in particular, advocates of the term. Also in particular, Nick Cho and I exchanged a few e-mails in debate over what &#8220;third wave&#8221; means &#8230; and I noted how it is being cited and misused in ways never intended by those who were among the original proponents of the concept. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; Coffee book release event at Ritual Coffee Roasters, June 1</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; Coffee book release event at Ritual Coffee Roasters, June 1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 02:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-227</guid>
		<description>[...] The article is actually a nice briefing on the past ten hopeful years of a better and more sustainable coffee industry &#8212; covering globalization, organics, Fair Trade, social and economic issues, and other sustainable practices. Sure, there&#8217;s a bit of that regrettable &#8220;Third Wave&#8221; hocus pocus in there, but it comes off pretty positive for the future of a once highly endangered crop and industry. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The article is actually a nice briefing on the past ten hopeful years of a better and more sustainable coffee industry &#8212; covering globalization, organics, Fair Trade, social and economic issues, and other sustainable practices. Sure, there&#8217;s a bit of that regrettable &#8220;Third Wave&#8221; hocus pocus in there, but it comes off pretty positive for the future of a once highly endangered crop and industry. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; Book Review: Espresso Italiano Tasting</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot.coffeeratings.com &#187; Book Review: Espresso Italiano Tasting</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 20:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-86</guid>
		<description>[...] This book is not definitive nor complete by any means. However, I could not help get the impression of how much the specialty coffee industry in America (or dare I suggest the Third Wave?; this coming from a self-described No Waver) has only scratched the surface in some areas &#8212; especially when compared to the layered, rich, and multi-generational history in pursuit of excellent espresso (or coffee) that comes out in a book like this. Surprisingly, the book still leaves a lot open to subjectivity &#8212; despite the structure it provides in juding criteria. For example, the trialcards allow tasters to introduce &#8220;write-in&#8221; candidates for qualitative characteristics that they can then quantitatively score. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This book is not definitive nor complete by any means. However, I could not help get the impression of how much the specialty coffee industry in America (or dare I suggest the Third Wave?; this coming from a self-described No Waver) has only scratched the surface in some areas &#8212; especially when compared to the layered, rich, and multi-generational history in pursuit of excellent espresso (or coffee) that comes out in a book like this. Surprisingly, the book still leaves a lot open to subjectivity &#8212; despite the structure it provides in juding criteria. For example, the trialcards allow tasters to introduce &#8220;write-in&#8221; candidates for qualitative characteristics that they can then quantitatively score. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TheShot</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-84</link>
		<dc:creator>TheShot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 08:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-84</guid>
		<description>Oh, those changes are all around us, alright. No question -- and all for the better! But a term like 'Third Wave' conveys the mentality of a quantum leap that's dissociated with the past, or at least "previous waves". It speaks to revolution rather than evolution. The best espresso of today and the mass enjoyment of it, for example, didn't just magically appear as if some alien life form from outer space; it's a result that's built upon a continuum of experience, learning, consumer sophistication, and industry mastery that has accumulated over many decades.

There's also an inherent egocentric error to the mentality that generates a notion such as a 'Third Wave'. It's driven primarily by internal, subjective experiences that are somewhat detatched -- and decidedly so -- from external reality.

For example, I've been reading the latest edition of &lt;em&gt;Espresso Italiano Tasting&lt;/em&gt; as published by the &lt;a href="http://www.espressoitaliano.org/or4/or?uid=istitutoespressoitaliano.client.show_pagina1&#38;idvoce=60" rel="nofollow"&gt;Istituto Internazionale Assaggiatori Caffè&lt;/a&gt;. Here the science of espresso, from bean to cup, and the science of tasting it has evolved enough to form the nth edition of this guide in 2001. (The best I can compare it to anything here is to Ted Lingle's &lt;em&gt;Basics of Cupping Coffee&lt;/em&gt;, and even that is a weak comparison. He's even regarded as a &lt;em&gt;Second Waver&lt;/em&gt; for that matter.) The IIAC is also on its second generation (or should I say 'Wave'?) of  formal espresso tasting trialcards. Reading through it, I'm not so much impressed with the guide as I am at seeing the thought, experience, and standards that are behind it. Reading it, I can't help but get the sensation that this 'Third Wave' in the U.S. is myopic and a bit unknowingly primitive in a number of areas. It's as if we're excited at the discovery of white zinfandel because we've previously been so accustomed to drinking generic 'white' wine out of a box, and meanwhile other circles that we selectively ignore are doing vertical tastings of single vineyard Montrachet.

But I am not at all surprised that this line of thinking arose, and I'm not at all surprised at who is primarily blowing its trumpet. You take young people who have been slaving away at their own professional obsessions, and suddenly they find themselves at the center of attention in media and in worldwide networks of people where they never prior had a podium ... or even imagined access. I know, because I experienced this first hand years ago after working on the first Web site in the U.S. back in 1991 -- when it was years before most people ever heard of the Web (it's still the foundation for my "day job" to this day). And I can completely identify with how someone like Trish Skeie can draw parallels to what she's experiencing and the sensation of riding a big wave on a surfboard. But I also witnessed a lot of carnage from the rightful dot-com fallout of 2000 because of a lot of hubris and insulated thinking that the old rules of business no longer applied, that all brick and mortars were dinosaurs ready for extinction, print is dead, etc. Now I'm not suggesting there's going to be a coffee 'crash'. But I will say that I've learned a lot about how revolutionary thinking can be a gross, highly subjective error when the truth really lies in &lt;em&gt;evolutionary&lt;/em&gt; thinking.

I don't believe in waves. It's elitist. And isn't it a coincidence that the suggestion of a &lt;em&gt;strata&lt;/em&gt; to anything is usually the fabrication of an individual or group who self-selects themselves at the most evolved end? So no waves in my coffee, thanks. In my book, we're just at a point in time along the continued pursuit of better coffee.

Now why people like Trish and Nick Cho speak of 'Third Wave' not as if it's just an idea but a present and unquestionable reality is another subject entirely. But to any coming-of-age teenager who feels as if they're the first to discover adolescence, even if adolescence has evolved over generations, it's hard to fathom the possibility of other realities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, those changes are all around us, alright. No question &#8212; and all for the better! But a term like &#8216;Third Wave&#8217; conveys the mentality of a quantum leap that&#8217;s dissociated with the past, or at least &#8220;previous waves&#8221;. It speaks to revolution rather than evolution. The best espresso of today and the mass enjoyment of it, for example, didn&#8217;t just magically appear as if some alien life form from outer space; it&#8217;s a result that&#8217;s built upon a continuum of experience, learning, consumer sophistication, and industry mastery that has accumulated over many decades.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also an inherent egocentric error to the mentality that generates a notion such as a &#8216;Third Wave&#8217;. It&#8217;s driven primarily by internal, subjective experiences that are somewhat detatched &#8212; and decidedly so &#8212; from external reality.</p>
<p>For example, I&#8217;ve been reading the latest edition of <em>Espresso Italiano Tasting</em> as published by the <a href="http://www.espressoitaliano.org/or4/or?uid=istitutoespressoitaliano.client.show_pagina1&amp;idvoce=60" rel="nofollow">Istituto Internazionale Assaggiatori Caffè</a>. Here the science of espresso, from bean to cup, and the science of tasting it has evolved enough to form the nth edition of this guide in 2001. (The best I can compare it to anything here is to Ted Lingle&#8217;s <em>Basics of Cupping Coffee</em>, and even that is a weak comparison. He&#8217;s even regarded as a <em>Second Waver</em> for that matter.) The IIAC is also on its second generation (or should I say &#8216;Wave&#8217;?) of  formal espresso tasting trialcards. Reading through it, I&#8217;m not so much impressed with the guide as I am at seeing the thought, experience, and standards that are behind it. Reading it, I can&#8217;t help but get the sensation that this &#8216;Third Wave&#8217; in the U.S. is myopic and a bit unknowingly primitive in a number of areas. It&#8217;s as if we&#8217;re excited at the discovery of white zinfandel because we&#8217;ve previously been so accustomed to drinking generic &#8216;white&#8217; wine out of a box, and meanwhile other circles that we selectively ignore are doing vertical tastings of single vineyard Montrachet.</p>
<p>But I am not at all surprised that this line of thinking arose, and I&#8217;m not at all surprised at who is primarily blowing its trumpet. You take young people who have been slaving away at their own professional obsessions, and suddenly they find themselves at the center of attention in media and in worldwide networks of people where they never prior had a podium &#8230; or even imagined access. I know, because I experienced this first hand years ago after working on the first Web site in the U.S. back in 1991 &#8212; when it was years before most people ever heard of the Web (it&#8217;s still the foundation for my &#8220;day job&#8221; to this day). And I can completely identify with how someone like Trish Skeie can draw parallels to what she&#8217;s experiencing and the sensation of riding a big wave on a surfboard. But I also witnessed a lot of carnage from the rightful dot-com fallout of 2000 because of a lot of hubris and insulated thinking that the old rules of business no longer applied, that all brick and mortars were dinosaurs ready for extinction, print is dead, etc. Now I&#8217;m not suggesting there&#8217;s going to be a coffee &#8216;crash&#8217;. But I will say that I&#8217;ve learned a lot about how revolutionary thinking can be a gross, highly subjective error when the truth really lies in <em>evolutionary</em> thinking.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe in waves. It&#8217;s elitist. And isn&#8217;t it a coincidence that the suggestion of a <em>strata</em> to anything is usually the fabrication of an individual or group who self-selects themselves at the most evolved end? So no waves in my coffee, thanks. In my book, we&#8217;re just at a point in time along the continued pursuit of better coffee.</p>
<p>Now why people like Trish and Nick Cho speak of &#8216;Third Wave&#8217; not as if it&#8217;s just an idea but a present and unquestionable reality is another subject entirely. But to any coming-of-age teenager who feels as if they&#8217;re the first to discover adolescence, even if adolescence has evolved over generations, it&#8217;s hard to fathom the possibility of other realities.</p>
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		<title>By: psyd</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-83</link>
		<dc:creator>psyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 May 2006 00:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-83</guid>
		<description>'Kay, the term 'Third Wave' refers primarily to this country, although there are parts of Europe that are experiencing a similar growth in coffee interest, and it refers to the awakening of enthusiasts int he area of coffee.  It is vague, and a generalization, but it refers to people that actually care what is in the cup, to a degree that caring results in a far superior product.  It refers to those that would like to get a cup that tastes like fresh ground coffee smells.  Twenty years ago, if you had an espresso machine in your home, you were a bit of an odd duck.  The Krups 934 was a hunnert bucks, and Mr.Coffee and Delonghi and KitchenAid didn't all have mokapots for sale.  There was no Alt.coffee, nor was there Coffeegeek, and the term home barista had yet to be coined.  This was the tip of the iceberg, and this 'Third Wave' is the result of that iceberg.  Every third person in this country knows what a cappucino is.  That is also new, and a result of the 'Third Wave'.  As is the fair trade, organic, flavored and specialty lables on coffee in the grocery store, not to mention the bulk availability and the grinder.
Anyone who has noticed this shift in the consumer attitude towards coffee in the last two decades has witnessed the 'Third Wave'.  As to whether you care for teh moniker or not is immaterial.  It is the term that, for better or worse, is used to describe these changes, and if I can tell whether the baristi in a place are going to; bother to wipe down the steam wand; are 'allowed' to adjust the grinder; and know how to pull all the magic out of a shot or push it down the drain by lableing the shop a 'Third Wave' participant in the window, I'm all for it!
What did you want to call it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Kay, the term &#8216;Third Wave&#8217; refers primarily to this country, although there are parts of Europe that are experiencing a similar growth in coffee interest, and it refers to the awakening of enthusiasts int he area of coffee.  It is vague, and a generalization, but it refers to people that actually care what is in the cup, to a degree that caring results in a far superior product.  It refers to those that would like to get a cup that tastes like fresh ground coffee smells.  Twenty years ago, if you had an espresso machine in your home, you were a bit of an odd duck.  The Krups 934 was a hunnert bucks, and Mr.Coffee and Delonghi and KitchenAid didn&#8217;t all have mokapots for sale.  There was no Alt.coffee, nor was there Coffeegeek, and the term home barista had yet to be coined.  This was the tip of the iceberg, and this &#8216;Third Wave&#8217; is the result of that iceberg.  Every third person in this country knows what a cappucino is.  That is also new, and a result of the &#8216;Third Wave&#8217;.  As is the fair trade, organic, flavored and specialty lables on coffee in the grocery store, not to mention the bulk availability and the grinder.<br />
Anyone who has noticed this shift in the consumer attitude towards coffee in the last two decades has witnessed the &#8216;Third Wave&#8217;.  As to whether you care for teh moniker or not is immaterial.  It is the term that, for better or worse, is used to describe these changes, and if I can tell whether the baristi in a place are going to; bother to wipe down the steam wand; are &#8216;allowed&#8217; to adjust the grinder; and know how to pull all the magic out of a shot or push it down the drain by lableing the shop a &#8216;Third Wave&#8217; participant in the window, I&#8217;m all for it!<br />
What did you want to call it?</p>
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		<title>By: dude</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-77</guid>
		<description>3rd wave discussion (hopefully) resolved on my blog today
www.thirdwavecoffee.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3rd wave discussion (hopefully) resolved on my blog today<br />
<a href="http://www.thirdwavecoffee.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.thirdwavecoffee.net</a></p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/2006/04/third-wave-pompousness/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theshot.coffeeratings.com/?p=125#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Still all straw-man arguments.

"Third Wave" does no more disrespect to previous paradigms of coffee than Classical music does to Baroque.  If there's disrespect apparent out there, it's from the individual... not tied to the concept of third wave.

Whatever.  This semantics b.s. is tiresome.  If you don't get it, you don't get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Still all straw-man arguments.</p>
<p>&#8220;Third Wave&#8221; does no more disrespect to previous paradigms of coffee than Classical music does to Baroque.  If there&#8217;s disrespect apparent out there, it&#8217;s from the individual&#8230; not tied to the concept of third wave.</p>
<p>Whatever.  This semantics b.s. is tiresome.  If you don&#8217;t get it, you don&#8217;t get it.</p>
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